Children and parents in a Domestic-Discipline(/SM/BDSM) relationship

After we had been together for a about half a year, I wrote an article about “Children and BDSM Parents“. It was still strongly influenced by the “coming together” of us as a troop of 8.

Since the topic keeps coming up in our environment, I’m writing about it again here. But now from the perspective of about 2.5 years of experience 😀.

Basic assumptions

In the many couples we know from the active SM environment, children play a role. Be it only on weekends, as a continuous life or alternating in the context of patchwork constellations.

We know parents who very strictly want to keep the children out of the sexual life. That sounds logical at first. However, I experience the form of execution partly as critical. The people who propagate this very strongly often twist themselves.

When my lady and I moved in together, only one of our six was attending elementary school. We had really young kids. Further, the kids were fresh “separation” kids. We watched very closely to see what impressions impacted them and how they were doing with it.

In retrospect, I can say that the children were very fine with a lot of things. There was no problem. Just because they don’t know sex. Precisely because they don’t know S&M. Precisely because they don’t know violence. The most important thing I want parents to remember in the SM context is to leave those three points alone. This is easy. Above all, you must avoid jokes about canes. Also other things that give the kids hints that there are things that don’t fit their fluffy world.

Internalize that your children have no pigeonhole in their brains for anything that goes in the direction of violence and sex. So no matter what they pick up in that regard – they would sort it into the wrong pigeonhole. And with that in mind, just let it go completely.

If this works AND you are a relaxed couple, I can promise you a life with great freedom. Then the same pigeonhole scheme works for you.

Spanking / Toys / …

If your children don’t know SM, don’t know jokes about caning etc., you can forget canes in the living room. Your children will fence with them. Because the sticks are so nice and flexible and you can fence with them much better than with the sticks from the garden. And because what the HoH does with them is far beyond their thinking horizon.

If your children don’t know sex AND know you as a fresh couple as a lovely couple, they can see you lying in bed without any problems. They will only see a lovely couple and will be happy to come in for a cuddle. Especially if you stay relaxed, they may see a much more loveful couple than they saw in previous relationships.

If your kids don’t know any jokes about the wand, they’ll take it out of the bedroom and misuse it as a Singstar microphone. Or demand that you massage them with it again. Because there are no other uses for it in their fluffy kid world.

If your kids don’t know any jokes about whipping tools and how to use them, you can even build whips at home as a hobby. In the short period of time that we haven’t made the freshly built things disappear, the kids play with them partially. The kids don’t put it in any other context than when other moms knit. The fact that you could hit people with it is then behind their thinking horizon.

We have ceiling hooks in the living room. There’s a (kids) swing hanging from it. We hang birthday garlands from them. Or strings with “Happy Birthday” on them. The kids put the hooks into pigeonholes that match their fluffy world. That lasts for a few more years.

My TiH also wears a lockable metal ring ( meaning a collar) around her neck. One of the kind that her colleagues talked something like “pretty necklace”. It does not have to get off – and does not. The collar is bought for being usable when picking up children from child care. In the meantime, we observed two of my lady’s children using the ring as a fixed point for holding on to while they kiss mom.

So holding her by the collar while kissing her (🙈).

That went by. They probably learned that from me. But it happened precisely because they knew no violent context. They knew it as a partial gesture from the context of kissing when saying goodbye/greeting/etc. . They did it lovingly, without oppressing mom. Because it was so convenient to hold there.

Power differential/exercise of power

The topic of power differential is only theoretically a difficult topic. In practice, I can only encourage you to approach it very naturally as well. The core is a loving and respectful interaction with each other and with the children. Then a lot can be done.

No, I do not want to call for mom to kneel in front of dad. That again falls into the category of “children don’t have a pigeonhole for that and put it in an unwanted one”. An image of mom being beaten, yelled at, or disdainfully rebuked will also only distress children.

But if your children see that the top respects the sub really and throughly, they will see a loving couple. Then they can also easily perceive the man as a loving familyhead. This may sound a bit anachronistic, but it is not dangerous in itself. After all, the couple has great strengths. In the ideal case Top can from its role e.g. Sub so sovereignly and en passant right have let, that the children see despite the role distribution a child-fairer couple, than it households of the ex-partners exemplify.

Also like to internalize what happens when the TiH lets a top have the last word who respects her in real terms. He may have the last word in principle. However, he will never ever be able to take care of everything. Exactly the Top, to which one can give that “last word”, can leave to its TiH also sovereign in the life liberties. Under reasonable humans thereby topic-referred responsibilities develop in the outside appearance. And children find these in almost every relationship. The fact that it looks different in the internal relationship of the partners with the Domestic Discipline can stabilize, provide for reliability and have a very positive effect. And the internal relationship is not anything that belongs in the fluffy world of children.


It is obvious that sooner or later our children will realize how certain things are connected. By then, however, they will have put it in pigeonholes of the loving couple that they saw the last few years. This loving environment is explicitly applauded by the children. That should fit well.

Rather cross connections become interesting. For example, when older children recognize the alternative uses of certain things – and make hints to younger siblings as part of their mental processing. But again, I think it will be true that by this time we will have deposited much that is trustworthy and positive into a virtual account held by the children. It will be possible to withdraw from this account in case of need, and it will very certainly remain positive.

I would like to encourage you to approach your children similarly (😀)

Our way in the domestic discipline – or: about the duty of spanking your wife… (duck away)


Properly socialized men don’t write what I wrote above as a headline.And properly socialized women only trust men who would not write such a headline.

I count myself among the properly socialized men. I count my lady as a properly socialized woman. At least we were three years ago, if I use the above as a benchmark.

There are men in social networks of the SM scene who post pictures of their ladies. The men are often over 50. The often considerably younger ladies find themselves chained in basements. Beaten. Hung up until they were “soft.” Usually “used”, sometimes to the point of unconsciousness of the ladies. The men often preach under the photos why they do the only right thing from their point of view. On the basis of the fact that the photos often extend over longer periods of time, it can be guessed that the ladies repeatedly appear with these gentlemen. Based on the photo series visible over periods of time, I assume that the women’s limits are slowly shifting. They become ” obedient “, as the men write. Based on the descriptions of the tops, I assume that unrestrained horniness is at play – especially with the ladies. And I also assume that this is the case precisely because of the treatment they receive there.

Our position on this three years ago

Fantasies of my lady and me were shaped by these pictures. Keyword primary “d.e.b.r.i.s.” / “DEBRIS”. But they were far away from what we thought was sensible/thinkable/healthy/…. reality.

My lady strongly assumed to want exactly something like that. She was afraid of automatically drifting into it in any S&M relationship – and completely denied herself for that very reason. She consistently went into an open marriage with a vanilla – and got the “play” externally. The open marriage was the safe harbor into which she returned after possibly heavy play weekends. The open marriage prevented at the same time, as an effective reasonable self-protection, that my lady gave herself up in SM.

I found the pictures interesting. But I couldn’t begin to imagine that scenarios like the ones described above could be a meaningful part of a healthy relationship. It didn’t even occur to me to include such aspects.

Our view – as you can imagine – has changed a lot.

Of mice and men

Let’s take again the picture that properly socialized subs only get together with properly socialized tops. In 90% of all cases, in my experience, this is what happens:

After stormy getting to know each other and many weekend meetings, the properly socialized subs moves in with the properly socialized top.

And then it goes to the rocks. Because the properly socialized top, being a good man, keeps his distance from oppressing the woman. And he knows, thanks to his rationality, that he would do that if he were constantly top. He would be violent. He waits dutifully until the woman feels like playing again – while the woman somehow has other problems. And is otherwise frustrated that the man doesn’t give his part of the relationship because he is no longer a top. The properly socialized top becomes a vanilla couple with the properly socialized sub in the long run – if all goes well. The resulting couple maybe times “plays”.

Problems on pair level: the top especially does not give his part of the partnership if he is not top. If it then comes to it that Sub tends to have less desire for sex/DS/SM etc., because she is simply not stimulated by the emerging vanilla constellation, it does not get better. If either has children or pets, the couples therapist has even more to do.

The sad rule, in my opinion, is that top and sub often wear themselves out on relationship problems because the sex they were having is no longer working the way they are having it now. The tops and subs break up, get together with others. In my environment, those couples who have been together for more than two years remain in the minority. The couples that have been together longer, or live stable cosequent SM, are in my experience 50 years…. or older.

Well, you dear properly socialized world. Now we’re getting to the point where there’s a knot that the 30-40 year old well socialized man and the associated well socialized woman can only untie if they jump over their shadows. And do things that disturb the well-socialized rest of the world.

All of a sudden, then, yes, it has its logic when a couple decides that after moving in together, top is top and sub is sub. But the couple still has everyday life. One slips out of the “roles”. Both sub, and top.

If then sub wants to stay sub, the top is suddenly in the duty to let his sub be sub, even if he has just the head full of work/children/tiredness.

From the duty of doing unspeakable things

And already we are at the apparent platitude of the duty for top to spank/use/lock up/etc. his sub. Even when he is not stimulated. We are at the apparent platitude that women “want it after all” and therefore you have to give it to them. We are at the unspeakable formulation that to spank one’s wife is in fact “caring”. That one ignores the needs of one’s wife and treats her badly if one does not use her roughly and demandingly.

Keep in mind that up to this point in the relationship, it’s only about men that the well-socialized women trusted before.

Uaaaah. The aspect of this text ending up as “16+” on the internet is challenging. Standing on their own, these sentences are in fact heavy.

And for that very reason, it’s exactly what I think many SM people have to deal with at some point.

You have to go through the necessary thought processes in a legally and morally correct way. You quickly get to topics like “at what point is it real violence?”. Where does violence begin and end in the relationship?What can I do psychologically with my wife without endangering her mental stability? According to what criteria may a woman even dare to allow a partner to do “that” permanently? To whom does a woman entrust herself in such a way that she allows herself to be flushed down the man’s gullet as a mouse with skin and hair, so to speak? Does the partner pull her also pleasurely at the tail his throat up again? Or does he change at some point in such a way that he swallows her right down, if he already has her in his throat?

In my experience, few couples follow through with this line of thought. Most of the “good” guys and girls shift down a few gears after a stormy relationship start time.

In my experience, most of the few tops and subs who have stably completed these lines of thought for themselves, and in doing so have jumped over the principles of their socialization, are over 50. I get this impression, for example, from the age structure I see at O parties.

On the other hand, the couples who dare to keep top top and sub sub, have a certain magic in them. It’s exactly the magic that Vanessa Smith describes so flowerily in “Progressive Domestic Discipline” that we didn’t take it seriously at first. The couple makes a contract that no one will take away from them so quickly.

Our world

Couples who can complete the above thought processes in such a way that they end up healthy for both of them have arrived in what I see as Domestic Discipline. The word “marry” takes on a different meaning here at the wedding.

I now see little difference from us as a couple to the gentlemen and ladies who play the violent games I mentioned at the beginning. My lady needs to be beaten to keep her obedient. However, she also likes herself considerably more when she is obedient. Yes, it has positive effects on the partnership when I alternate spanking and using my lady. My lady needs, gladly in bound condition – the cock unasked and firmly in the mouth. This is exactly what makes her soaking wet in a few seconds. My lady and I need it that I lock her away chained from time to time – so that she becomes more aware of her role. And she has many orgasms with all this.

I of course would never put photos of all this on the net. I have great respect for not leaving my lady intact during all this. I have so much respect for it that my lady constantly finds it a bit annoying. These are all things that make us as a couple massively different from the gentlemen mentioned above. I still want to be with my lady in 20 years 🙂 . As a properly socialized man, my limits had to be pushed over the years before I got there. “Head of Household” (HoH) and “Taken in Hand” (TiH) in the sense of “Domestic Discipline” we did not become overnight.

And my lady has definitely participated vigorously in pushing my limits. She didn’t really push along. But she kept holding out the road signs to me that showed the way. I “only” had to follow the rules. But in the process, some of the socialization went away.

Not that she actively begged for me to treat her harshly. But she was repeatedly – within days – displeased when I didn’t spank her. Grumpy. Bratty. Started thinking like a vanilla lady and was unhappy about it. If I hit her, it stopped. Then she was sweet again. (Uhhh, what a sentence). If she has been dry underneath, I quickly learned that slaps, violent punches and a firm use in the mouth were an effective remedy (I duck away). From such facts a certain behavior manifested itself with me. That’s what we do to the inside.

If I in turn regularly show this behavior, she grins so wonderfully when I kiss her neck in the kitchen while making breakfast. Or when I wish her bon appétit while she’s eating. The magic that comes from this is what defines us and is perceived from the outside. We are clearly a great working couple. Like out of the Domestic Discipline textbook. Virtually without power struggles. Efficiently working together. Balanced. Giving only good things to the children.

I, as a well-socialized man, slowly but surely pushed my limits under the guidance of my well-socialized lady. And it is an exciting journey 🙂 .


I would like to add a few words on the subject of “children”. Even since they do not belong into this text. Or just because they don’t belong into it and I don’t want to be misunderstood precisely in this point.

In order not to steer couples, who find us interesting, on wrong tracks: guys and gals – the children belong in my above way of thinking into what externals see. I firmly assume that children would not sort the above described facts into the right pigeonholes. Children, in my opinion, will never be able to process consensus in the context of violence as such. At least until the point they start to understand sexuality, they will misunderstand 100% everything they perceive. Children belong on the fluffy “mom and dad love each other sooo much and I like the cake at home” side of what you can broadcast as a couple. That they are on that side of possible impressions is your holy job.

Progressive Domestic Discipline – now and then

There is a book. It’s called “Progressive Domestic Discipline” and it was written by Vanessa Smith.

My lady and I read it while traveling to SM parties in March 2019 (Use – Second try). Our opinion at the time: “factually quite interesting, but overall much too heavy handed”.

We felt at the time that the book was preachy. In the sense that the benefits of a Domestic-Discipline relationship were rolled out one-sided and extremely flowery. It was obvious that the author – according to our first impression – wanted to get the topic into the heads of her readers. And in the process, we found that she repeated herself, told the story far too flowery, and hardly allowed worlds besides her own.

We took impulses from the book. But we didn’t see it as a “bible” in the sense that it would be useful to apply directly.

Today I sit again with my lady in the living room. She sits in the cage. Feels protected. And reads with me from the book.

We are both stunned because we now find the content romantic. We feel the book today is a beautiful book, which is well written. At least according to the paragraphs she reads to me, perplexed – is there now what we think !!!?

I don’t know how the difference between the view then and the view now comes about. I suspect that with our experience today, we have a better approach to the subject. I suspect that many things seemed “too violent” to us then. Both in educational measures, as well as in their reasons, and in the benefits to be achieved. It clearly didn’t work that way.

However, the more experience we gain, the more likely we are to agree. In the meantime, we consider the rather strict, consequent methods to be the most effective. Precisely because this consequence also includes the consequence that the HoH has to take care of the mental health of his TiH. And of course the couple has the task that the children see nothing else than a loving couple.

Nowadays, when we see what we now do regularly and how we got there, Vanessa Smith’s descriptions suddenly seem logical and beautiful.

But I also suspect that each couple – or at least a part of each couple – has to work its way to this way of thinking.

I assume, for example, that men who can be responsibly trusted by women are the very ones who disagree with many passages at first.

I also assume that women, before they can entrust themselves to a man in this way, must first have worked out the necessary conviction for themselves.

From today’s point of view, I would recommend that newcomers to the subject buy the book and study it. Take the book as an inspiration. Derive things from it as a couple.
Out of all the things Ms. Smith writes, I would prioritize three in particular:

  • Notice that Ms. Smith writes over and over that a loving HoH takes care of his TiH.
  • Noted that the HoH cannot avoid exercising power in real terms. It’s not about doing what the TiH wants. Or simply pleasing his lady in sex games.
  • Talk to each other a lot. Walk the way together. The HoH needs to know that his TiH feels protected in the context of exercising power. In particular, he must be able to notice when this is no longer the case.

Take the above into consideration… and then let the things you both experience work on you.

The noticeable end (2nd try)

I had prepared a very long article. “The noticable end.” It dealt with topics that had somehow condensed over the years and culminated at the end of 2020.

In the end, it was much too long. But I couldn’t shorten it either. It had to become rather longer.

In short: the sub of my lady had seen a pattern in certain characteristics of my lady. A pattern, which I had recognized in the approach, for whose correctness I had developed however a kind of blindness. A pattern which also applied to him.

That sub took a psychological test with her. A recognized, externally obtained test.

Unfortunately, the pattern is socially stigmatized. The fact that I would associate it with BDSM in a narrative thread here would, in my opinion, bring with it the duty of a high degree of care.

Because of the social stigma, it was intense for us that my lady responded to the test. She bought a book on the subject. We read a lot on the subject. We talked a lot about it.

In the process, an infinite number of thoughts arose. As I am, I wrote an article as an experience report. In the end, the article was long. And yet it was still far too short in terms of content. As hard as I tried, it was still too sketchy.

It turned out that the topic would be more suitable for a separate blog, rather than trying to cover it in passing. It would also shape the content of this blog here. And here it is supposed to be about Domestic Discipline, BDSM, our development, the difficulties of everyday life, etc. I could not have started this content and dealt with it properly. And so I deleted the article again.

Final result

We got through that test very precisely explained, why my lady is “different” to me. Since then we know even more than before that we have to talk to each other about impressions. Because we now know a system according to which we automatically talk past each other if we are not careful. And finally, very clear instructions for dealing with my lady can be derived.

I had my lady fill out the test for her ex-partner as a makeshift. Even if the answers often turned out differently, he would therefore also have to be classified as “positive”. In relation to my stepchildren, I found this rather frightening. It creeped me out what answers to certain oddities would directly result. It creeped me out that the kids are there with him alone. But the ex-partner is by no means incapable of parenting. Also systematically puts the kids in outside care. The children don’t find him or my lady strange. They know their parents as they are. We have a strong counterpart in me. Furthermore, over the last few years, my wife has adapted much of my behavior to the outside world and has also found it beautiful for herself.

We put the matter aside. We will probably not tell anyone about our self-made diagnosis. We don’t need a medical diagnosis either. It would do more harm than good.

We take it as a working thesis that my lady and her ex-partner are to be sorted into the appropriate behavioral spectrum. This helps to understand many things. It clarifies whole behavioral groups and their differences. It helps insofar to manage life better. Since in the case of my lady and her ex-partner nobody noticed what was going on for 30 years… one can simply leave it at that.