Properly socialized men don’t write what I wrote above as a headline.And properly socialized women only trust men who would not write such a headline.
I count myself among the properly socialized men. I count my lady as a properly socialized woman. At least we were three years ago, if I use the above as a benchmark.
There are men in social networks of the SM scene who post pictures of their ladies. The men are often over 50. The often considerably younger ladies find themselves chained in basements. Beaten. Hung up until they were “soft.” Usually “used”, sometimes to the point of unconsciousness of the ladies. The men often preach under the photos why they do the only right thing from their point of view. On the basis of the fact that the photos often extend over longer periods of time, it can be guessed that the ladies repeatedly appear with these gentlemen. Based on the photo series visible over periods of time, I assume that the women’s limits are slowly shifting. They become ” obedient “, as the men write. Based on the descriptions of the tops, I assume that unrestrained horniness is at play – especially with the ladies. And I also assume that this is the case precisely because of the treatment they receive there.
Our position on this three years ago
Fantasies of my lady and me were shaped by these pictures. Keyword primary “d.e.b.r.i.s.” / “DEBRIS”. But they were far away from what we thought was sensible/thinkable/healthy/…. reality.
My lady strongly assumed to want exactly something like that. She was afraid of automatically drifting into it in any S&M relationship – and completely denied herself for that very reason. She consistently went into an open marriage with a vanilla – and got the “play” externally. The open marriage was the safe harbor into which she returned after possibly heavy play weekends. The open marriage prevented at the same time, as an effective reasonable self-protection, that my lady gave herself up in SM.
I found the pictures interesting. But I couldn’t begin to imagine that scenarios like the ones described above could be a meaningful part of a healthy relationship. It didn’t even occur to me to include such aspects.
Our view – as you can imagine – has changed a lot.
Of mice and men
Let’s take again the picture that properly socialized subs only get together with properly socialized tops. In 90% of all cases, in my experience, this is what happens:
After stormy getting to know each other and many weekend meetings, the properly socialized subs moves in with the properly socialized top.
And then it goes to the rocks. Because the properly socialized top, being a good man, keeps his distance from oppressing the woman. And he knows, thanks to his rationality, that he would do that if he were constantly top. He would be violent. He waits dutifully until the woman feels like playing again – while the woman somehow has other problems. And is otherwise frustrated that the man doesn’t give his part of the relationship because he is no longer a top. The properly socialized top becomes a vanilla couple with the properly socialized sub in the long run – if all goes well. The resulting couple maybe times “plays”.
Problems on pair level: the top especially does not give his part of the partnership if he is not top. If it then comes to it that Sub tends to have less desire for sex/DS/SM etc., because she is simply not stimulated by the emerging vanilla constellation, it does not get better. If either has children or pets, the couples therapist has even more to do.
The sad rule, in my opinion, is that top and sub often wear themselves out on relationship problems because the sex they were having is no longer working the way they are having it now. The tops and subs break up, get together with others. In my environment, those couples who have been together for more than two years remain in the minority. The couples that have been together longer, or live stable cosequent SM, are in my experience 50 years…. or older.
Well, you dear properly socialized world. Now we’re getting to the point where there’s a knot that the 30-40 year old well socialized man and the associated well socialized woman can only untie if they jump over their shadows. And do things that disturb the well-socialized rest of the world.
All of a sudden, then, yes, it has its logic when a couple decides that after moving in together, top is top and sub is sub. But the couple still has everyday life. One slips out of the “roles”. Both sub, and top.
If then sub wants to stay sub, the top is suddenly in the duty to let his sub be sub, even if he has just the head full of work/children/tiredness.
From the duty of doing unspeakable things
And already we are at the apparent platitude of the duty for top to spank/use/lock up/etc. his sub. Even when he is not stimulated. We are at the apparent platitude that women “want it after all” and therefore you have to give it to them. We are at the unspeakable formulation that to spank one’s wife is in fact “caring”. That one ignores the needs of one’s wife and treats her badly if one does not use her roughly and demandingly.
Keep in mind that up to this point in the relationship, it’s only about men that the well-socialized women trusted before.
Uaaaah. The aspect of this text ending up as “16+” on the internet is challenging. Standing on their own, these sentences are in fact heavy.
And for that very reason, it’s exactly what I think many SM people have to deal with at some point.
You have to go through the necessary thought processes in a legally and morally correct way. You quickly get to topics like “at what point is it real violence?”. Where does violence begin and end in the relationship?What can I do psychologically with my wife without endangering her mental stability? According to what criteria may a woman even dare to allow a partner to do “that” permanently? To whom does a woman entrust herself in such a way that she allows herself to be flushed down the man’s gullet as a mouse with skin and hair, so to speak? Does the partner pull her also pleasurely at the tail his throat up again? Or does he change at some point in such a way that he swallows her right down, if he already has her in his throat?
In my experience, few couples follow through with this line of thought. Most of the “good” guys and girls shift down a few gears after a stormy relationship start time.
In my experience, most of the few tops and subs who have stably completed these lines of thought for themselves, and in doing so have jumped over the principles of their socialization, are over 50. I get this impression, for example, from the age structure I see at O parties.
On the other hand, the couples who dare to keep top top and sub sub, have a certain magic in them. It’s exactly the magic that Vanessa Smith describes so flowerily in “Progressive Domestic Discipline” that we didn’t take it seriously at first. The couple makes a contract that no one will take away from them so quickly.
Couples who can complete the above thought processes in such a way that they end up healthy for both of them have arrived in what I see as Domestic Discipline. The word “marry” takes on a different meaning here at the wedding.
I now see little difference from us as a couple to the gentlemen and ladies who play the violent games I mentioned at the beginning. My lady needs to be beaten to keep her obedient. However, she also likes herself considerably more when she is obedient. Yes, it has positive effects on the partnership when I alternate spanking and using my lady. My lady needs, gladly in bound condition – the cock unasked and firmly in the mouth. This is exactly what makes her soaking wet in a few seconds. My lady and I need it that I lock her away chained from time to time – so that she becomes more aware of her role. And she has many orgasms with all this.
I of course would never put photos of all this on the net. I have great respect for not leaving my lady intact during all this. I have so much respect for it that my lady constantly finds it a bit annoying. These are all things that make us as a couple massively different from the gentlemen mentioned above. I still want to be with my lady in 20 years 🙂 . As a properly socialized man, my limits had to be pushed over the years before I got there. “Head of Household” (HoH) and “Taken in Hand” (TiH) in the sense of “Domestic Discipline” we did not become overnight.
And my lady has definitely participated vigorously in pushing my limits. She didn’t really push along. But she kept holding out the road signs to me that showed the way. I “only” had to follow the rules. But in the process, some of the socialization went away.
Not that she actively begged for me to treat her harshly. But she was repeatedly – within days – displeased when I didn’t spank her. Grumpy. Bratty. Started thinking like a vanilla lady and was unhappy about it. If I hit her, it stopped. Then she was sweet again. (Uhhh, what a sentence). If she has been dry underneath, I quickly learned that slaps, violent punches and a firm use in the mouth were an effective remedy (I duck away). From such facts a certain behavior manifested itself with me. That’s what we do to the inside.
If I in turn regularly show this behavior, she grins so wonderfully when I kiss her neck in the kitchen while making breakfast. Or when I wish her bon appétit while she’s eating. The magic that comes from this is what defines us and is perceived from the outside. We are clearly a great working couple. Like out of the Domestic Discipline textbook. Virtually without power struggles. Efficiently working together. Balanced. Giving only good things to the children.
I, as a well-socialized man, slowly but surely pushed my limits under the guidance of my well-socialized lady. And it is an exciting journey 🙂 .
I would like to add a few words on the subject of “children”. Even since they do not belong into this text. Or just because they don’t belong into it and I don’t want to be misunderstood precisely in this point.
In order not to steer couples, who find us interesting, on wrong tracks: guys and gals – the children belong in my above way of thinking into what externals see. I firmly assume that children would not sort the above described facts into the right pigeonholes. Children, in my opinion, will never be able to process consensus in the context of violence as such. At least until the point they start to understand sexuality, they will misunderstand 100% everything they perceive. Children belong on the fluffy “mom and dad love each other sooo much and I like the cake at home” side of what you can broadcast as a couple. That they are on that side of possible impressions is your holy job.